Jecht (Dissidia 012)/Combos: Difference between revisions

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(→‎Jecht Stream – Neutral 2 – Down 3 – HP (Triumphant Grasp): Added damage and ex tables. Added info on down 3 jecht blade.)
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=== Jecht Rush – Neutral 2 – Failed Up 3 – Dodge cancel (forward) – Jecht Stream ===
=== Jecht Rush – Neutral 2 – Failed Up 3 – Dodge cancel (forward) – Jecht Stream ===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
|-
! scope=col | Combo
! scope=col | Approximate damage (multipliers)
! scope=col | Approximate EX Force
|-
|Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Failed Up 3 > Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 > Jecht Blade || '''63 + HP WR''' (4, 9, 19, 4, 7, 10, 10 + HP WR) || '''144''' (9, 9, 69, 9, 9, 9, 30)
|-
|Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Failed Up 3 > Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 > Jecht Blade LV2 || '''69 + HP WR''' (4, 9, 19, 4, 7, 10, 16 + HP WR) || '''144''' (9, 9, 69, 9, 9, 9, 30)
|-
|Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Failed Up 3 > Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 > Jecht Beam || '''53''' (4, 9, 19, 4, 7, 10, 0) || '''354''' (9, 9, 69, 9, 9, 9, 120, 120)
|-
|Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Failed Up 3 > Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Down 3 > Triumphant Grasp || '''63 + HP WR''' (4, 9, 19, 4, 7, 10, 10 + HP WR) || '''144''' (9, 9, 69, 9, 9, 9, 30)
|-
|Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Failed Up 3 > Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Down 3 > Triumphant Grasp LV2 || '''68 + HP WR''' (4, 9, 19, 4, 7, 10, 15 + HP WR) || '''144''' (9, 9, 69, 9, 9, 9, 30)
|}
Highest bravery damage output, longest wall carry and generates the most assist meter without HP attack's meter gain at the end.
Highest bravery damage output, longest wall carry and generates the most assist meter without HP attack's meter gain at the end.



Revision as of 07:59, 16 March 2024


Overview

Jecht operates with a distinct combo system that allows him to link into HP attacks by himself. This is different from HP links - HP attacks are not dedicated follow-ups that are equipped on top of bravery attacks. Rather, they are independent HP attacks that can be cancelled into at the end of a combo from Jecht Rush or Jecht Stream.

Each full bravery combo chain is comprised of three combo sequences and an optional HP attack at the end, starting with Jecht Rush or Jecht Stream. Every follow-up requires a bravery / HP attack input within a specific 3-frame window. If a single bravery input is mistimed, Jecht will repeat the previous attack and chaining into an HP attack will no longer be possible for that combo.

When the subsequent bravery attacks have been timed correctly, Jecht will end the combo chain with a wall rush finisher. These combo chains will be referred to with a direction and a number, with "2" being middle of the chain and "3" being the last part of the chain.

Combos (Solo)

DC = Dodge Cancel

Combo Video
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 > HP (Jecht Blade / Jecht Beam) Video
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Up 3 > HP (Ultimate Jecht Shot / Jecht Blade LV2) Video
Jecht Rush > Up 2 > Neutral 3 > HP (Jecht Blade / Jecht Beam) Video
Jecht Rush > Up 2 > Down 3 > HP (Triumphant Grasp) Video
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Failed Up 3 > DC (forward) > Jecht Stream > HP (Jecht Blade / Jecht Beam) Video
Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 > HP (Jecht Blade / Jecht Beam) Video
Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Down 3 > HP (Triumphant Grasp) Video

Jecht's "failed" Up 3 has enough hit stun to dodge cancel and connect an uncharged Jecht Stream. To make the combo less prone to failure, hold X during Up 3 and mash R. If you do Jecht Rush > Up 2, this same technique applies to that as well.

Which combo should a new player learn first?

Jecht Stream into Triumphant Grasp. That is, Jecht Stream – bravery – down + bravery – HP.

Majority of the match-ups in Duodecim are played in the air and Jecht Stream is Jecht’s primary offensive bravery attack that can also hit grounded opponents. This is important to get accustomed to regardless of your playstyle.

With Triumphant Grasp, you can concentrate on completing the combo instead of making decisions about combo enders. The timing for the HP is arguably easiest to grasp for most people thanks to the distinct two hits that precede the HP input itself. Press the HP right as the second downward hit connects!

The timing is not the only factor though. Triumphant Grasp's short travel distance and diagonal angle makes wall rushes more consistent regardless of how close you are to a wall. Corners, ceilings and walls alike all work well with this move.

Once you are comfortable with the timing, you can begin adding other combos into your repertoire, including ones off of Jecht Rush. When learning Jecht you are not racing a sprint, but a marathon, so do not worry about dropping combos. It can happen to the experienced players as well.

Combo Timing

Each combo timing has a minimum of three frames for a successful input. The following documentation is based off of Eddienput script timing at 30 frames per second. The "W" stands for waiting until taking the next action in a script. For example, "W10" refers to waiting for 10 frames before the next input.

Jecht Rush
  • Rush to Neutral / Up 2: W10, W11 and W12 (3-frame window)
  • Rush Neutral 2 to Neutral 3 / Up 3: W18, W19, W20 (3-frame window)
  • Rush Neutral 3 to HP: W20, W21, W22, W23 (4-frame window)
  • Rush Up 3 to HP (UJS): W27, W28, W29, W30, W31 (5-frame window)
  • Rush Up 2 into Down 3 / Jecht Stream Down 3. W16, W17, W18, W19, W20 (5-frame window)
Jecht Stream
  • Stream to Neutral 2: W20, W21 and W22 (3-frame window)
  • Stream Neutral 2 to Neutral 3 / Down 3: W26, W27 and W28 (3-frame window)
  • Stream Down 3 to HP: W16, W17, W18, W19, W20 (5-frame window)
  • Stream Down 3 to LV2 Triumphant Grasp: 4-frame window if done on earliest timing. If input x frames later, you either have 3, 2 or 1 frame(s) to time LV2 Grasp, including button release
  • Stream Neutral 3 to HP: W20, W21, W22, W23 (4-frame window)
  • Stream Neutral 3 to LV2 Blade: 5-frame window if done on earliest timing

If you time an HP early enough, you can charge it to a slightly stronger level 2 version for additional bravery damage. This timing can be difficult to pinpoint and is only recommended once you have plenty of experience with the character. Increased amount of bravery hits, subtly enhanced particle and sound effects will signal success on hit.

Choosing the HP combo finisher

Jecht can freely choose which HP attack to end a combo chain with.

Solo HP finisher damage multipliers ranked:

  • Ultimate Jecht Shot LV2 (24, easiest timing, floor only)
  • Ultimate Jecht Shot LV1 (18)
  • Jecht Blade LV2 (16, works anywhere)
  • Triumphant Grasp LV2 (15, hardest timing, air only)
  • Jecht Blade LV1 (10)
  • Triumphant Grasp LV1 (10, easiest timing, air only)

The damage multipliers between Triumphant Grasp and Jecht Blade don't have massive discrepancies between each other, so securing the wall rush often takes priority. Consider the following traits when choosing your HP finisher:

Ultimate Jecht Shot - Consistent high damage on the ground. Only needs floor to output highest (bravery) damage output relative to practical assist combos. However, the long animation also leaves Jecht vulnerable to Assist Change counterattacks.

Triumphant Grasp - Less bravery damage, but more consistent wall rushes due to short travel distance, and diagonal knockback angle. Easiest HP to time thanks to Down 3 combo branch. Best used when near a wall, a ceiling, or when you are already at the wall. Diagonal knockback tends to wall rush more consistently in sphere-shaped stages like Order's Sanctuary and Edge of Madness, and it works at the ceiling too. Arguably safest against LV1 Assist Change due to creating most distance during traversal.

Jecht Blade - Longest wall carry and highest air-centric combo damage. This also keeps you at the opponent's altitude after a wall rush, so use the dodge cancel window to connect Jecht Beam during Kuja assist. Level 2 Jecht Blade has slightly stronger damage multiplier (16) than level 2 Triumphant Grasp (15), making this technically the stronger aerial wall rush ender. Like Ultimate Jecht Shot, opponent has ample time to retaliate after an Assist Change.

Jecht Beam - Does not cause wall rush, but generates 120 EX twice on hit. This also applies to Side by Side's assist meter influx as well, making this the defacto finisher for building meter. Barring few assists, Jecht Beam requires a wall nearby for combos and Jecht is completely stationary during this attack, making LV1 Assist Change retaliations practical for some characters. If the opponent is trying to react to Jecht Blade for an easier punish attempt, this can and will catch them off guard.

Solo Combo Analysis

Choosing the right combo is important for Jecht, so understanding what makes each combo good can help improve your decision making.

Jecht Rush – Neutral 2 – Neutral 3 – HP (Jecht Blade / Jecht Beam)

Combo Approximate damage (multipliers) Approximate EX Force
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 42 + WR (4, 1x9, 1x4, 6, 19) 27 (9, 9, 9)
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 > Jecht Blade 33 + HP WR (4, 1x9, 1x4, 6, 2x5) 57 (9, 9, 9, 30)
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 > Jecht Beam 23 (4, 1x9, 1x4, 6, 0) 267 (9, 9, 9, 120, 120)

Straight forward combo, literally. The two neutral followups provide good wall carry. It is not the strongest combo, but it does combo into Jecht Beam or Jecht Blade which still have potential depending on the situation.

Jecht Blade adds a lot of wall rush potential with the forward movement and knockback. Regardless of where Jecht Beam is performed, it will hit twice in the combo, resulting in double the meter depletion, EX Force generation and assist meter with Side by Side accessory_special.png equipped. At a wall or corner Jecht Beam provides an assist combo thanks to reduced pushback.

Failing the Neutral 3 chain can be converted into an assist if you call it right before Jecht halts his forward momentum and starts spinning. Kuja and Sephiroth assist have lenient timing on that, but other assists can work too, such as Aerith.

Jecht Rush – Neutral 2 – Up 3 – HP (Ultimate Jecht Shot / LV2 Jecht Blade)

Combo Approximate damage (multipliers) Approximate EX Force
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Up 3 42 + WR (4, 1x9, 3, 1x5, 2, 19 +WR) 27 (9, 9, 9)
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Up 3 > Ultimate Jecht Shot 41 + HP WR (4, 1x9, 3, 1x5, 2, 1x18 + HP WR) 57 (9, 9, 9, 30)
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Up 3 > Ultimate Jecht Shot LV2 47 + HP WR (4, 1x9, 3, 1x5, 2, 1x24 + HP WR) 57 (9, 9, 9, 30)
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Up 3 > Jecht Blade LV2 39 + HP WR (4, 1x9, 3, 1x5, 2, 1x6, 2, 2, 3, 3) 57 (9, 9, 9, 30)

The only way Jecht can connect Ultimate Jecht Shot in a solo combo, but it also has higher damage potential than other HPs. The timing for inputting an HP is a little difficult to make out visually, but the idea is to have the input registered right as the last hit of the multi-hits connects. It may take time to get used to, but it is well worth learning.

This combo is Jecht’s primary wall rush application in large stages with a lot of ground and walls far apart from each side such as Orphan’s Cradle or Lunar's Subterrane. As it relies on floors, it is a consistent way to score wall rushes in most stages and it allows rather elaborate assist followups as well. Any decent ground combo assist benefits from this, such as Bartz, Squall and Zidane. But with the more prominent meta assists, you can get a lot of mileage out of this combo.

Just be aware, that the animation for Ultimate Jecht Shot is quite long and cannot be dodge cancelled until Jecht has thrown the rock. Until then, you are open for attacks. Maybe you could use it to your advantage with assist...

Jecht Blade LV2 is a viable ender for this combo. This is a very niche combo, but is ultimately another way to adjust your wall rush potential. Order’s Sanctuary has round walls and colliding into them during forward momentum can realign Jecht to be alongside the wall, possibly losing a wall rush at the end due to awkward collision detection. If it looks like this may happen to you, you can try to barely charge a single level for Jecht Blade and then let it rip. Ground Jecht Blade is rarely prioritised to begin with though, so treat that 15 CP with care.

Jecht Rush – Up 2 – Neutral 3 – HP (Jecht Blade / Jecht Beam)

Combo Approximate damage (multipliers) Approximate EX Force
Jecht Rush > Up 2 > Neutral 3 40 + WR (4, 7, 10, 19 + WR) 27 (9, 9, 9)
Jecht Rush > Up 2 > Neutral 3 > Jecht Blade 31 + HP WR (4, 7, 10, 10 + HP WR) 57 (9, 9, 9, 30)
Jecht Rush > Up 2 > Neutral 3 > Jecht Blade LV2 37 + HP WR (4, 7, 10, 16 + HP WR) 57 (9, 9, 9, 30)
Jecht Rush > Up 2 > Neutral 3 > Jecht Beam 21 (4, 7, 10, 0) 267 (9, 9, 9, 120, 120)

Jecht Rush turns into an air combo earlier. This is not commonly used because other combos usually get the job done in terms of positioning and damage. However, if you stagger the opponent's melee low / mid priority attack with Jecht Rush LV3, this becomes a good option for pushing the opponent towards a wall.

Also, on ledges such as in Crystal World, using the Up 2 followup can keep Jecht on the intended axis for a wall rush. If you connect Jecht Rush near a ledge, Neutral 2 can travel along the ledge, possibly steering you away from the nearest wall rush position. So you can still use this to take advantage of wall rushes!

If Neutral 3 does not come out as intended, the chase ender can still be used to save the situation with an assist, as listed in the assist combo section below. Kuja, Sephiroth and Aerith assists are great for this. Aerith allows Jecht to complete the animation, initiate chase and trap the opponent during the chase sequence without walls. This trait carries over to Jecht Stream Failed 3 ender as well.

Jecht Rush – Up 2 – Down 3 – HP (Triumphant Grasp)

Combo Approximate damage (multipliers) Approximate EX Force
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Down 3 40 + WR (4, 7, 10, 19 + WR) 27 (9, 9, 9)
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Down 3 > Triumphant Grasp 31 + HP WR (4, 7, 10, 10 + HP WR) 57 (9, 9, 9, 30)
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Down 3 > Triumphant Grasp LV2 36 + HP WR (4, 7, 10, 15 + HP WR) 57 (9, 9, 9, 30)

One of the easier combo timings to learn. Very well defined rhythm and the downward hits of Down 3 make it easier to input an HP, but only Triumphant Grasp will connect this way.

So when would you use it? It is when you want to travel the least amount of distance possible to guarantee a wall rush. For example, corners in World of Darkness can often times re-orient Jecht right before HP damage, losing out on wall rush altogether. Much like the LV2 Jecht Blade example from earlier, this is usually a result of positioning yourself to the corner during the combo. So this vertical combo can be very useful in preventing that.

Even if you fail to land the hp after Down 3, you still have potential to apply mindgames on the opponent’s wake-up or go for an assist combo. You can also use the Up 2 followup to transition to Jecht Stream with the help of a dodge cancel, which is detailed next

Jecht Rush – Neutral 2 – Failed Up 3 – Dodge cancel (forward) – Jecht Stream

Combo Approximate damage (multipliers) Approximate EX Force
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Failed Up 3 > Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 > Jecht Blade 63 + HP WR (4, 9, 19, 4, 7, 10, 10 + HP WR) 144 (9, 9, 69, 9, 9, 9, 30)
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Failed Up 3 > Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 > Jecht Blade LV2 69 + HP WR (4, 9, 19, 4, 7, 10, 16 + HP WR) 144 (9, 9, 69, 9, 9, 9, 30)
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Failed Up 3 > Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 > Jecht Beam 53 (4, 9, 19, 4, 7, 10, 0) 354 (9, 9, 69, 9, 9, 9, 120, 120)
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Failed Up 3 > Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Down 3 > Triumphant Grasp 63 + HP WR (4, 9, 19, 4, 7, 10, 10 + HP WR) 144 (9, 9, 69, 9, 9, 9, 30)
Jecht Rush > Neutral 2 > Failed Up 3 > Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Down 3 > Triumphant Grasp LV2 68 + HP WR (4, 9, 19, 4, 7, 10, 15 + HP WR) 144 (9, 9, 69, 9, 9, 9, 30)

Highest bravery damage output, longest wall carry and generates the most assist meter without HP attack's meter gain at the end.

The idea of intentionally failing a combo feels very counter-intuitive, given what this guide has gone over so far. But as it turns out, the Failed Up 3 ender has enough hit stun for Jecht to dodge cancel the move’s recovery and hit the opponent with an uncharged Jecht Stream. After Stream has connected, any decision making involving regular Stream combos come into play.

Because you dodge cancel into a new attack, the assist meter gain is higher compared to repeating the previous attack again. You get a little bit of assist meter through these combos, but this is rare instance where Jecht can naturally take advantage of it in a combo.

If you were going for the Ultimate Jecht Shot combo, this means you technically get a second chance to apply HP damage without spending assist meter. Furthermore, this applies to the Failed Up 2 follow-up from Jecht Rush. So in situations where Jecht Rush might anti-air someone, you can still go for a true combo.

The dodge cancel timing can be a bit tricky at first and as you transition to a different combo, you have to time another full combo for an HP finisher. As such, this combo can be hard to justify in lag. To make the dodge cancel easier, hold X and press R instead. This will eliminate the possibility of accidentally initiating chase.

Jecht Stream – Neutral 2 – Neutral 3 - HP (Jecht Beam / Jecht Blade)

Combo Approximate damage (multipliers) Approximate EX Force
Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 40 + WR (4, 7, 10, 19 + WR) 27 (9, 9, 9)
Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 > Jecht Blade 31 + HP WR (4, 7, 10, 10 + HP WR) 57 (9, 9, 9, 30)
Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 > Jecht Blade LV2 37 + HP WR (4, 7, 10, 16 + HP WR) 57 (9, 9, 9, 30)
Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Neutral 3 > Jecht Beam 21 (4, 7, 10, 0) 267 (9, 9, 9, 120, 120)

The bread and butter. Good wall carry with Jecht Blade. Bravery wall rush leaves at a decent advantage for potential charged Jecht Stream mindgames.

Much like with upward Jecht Rush conversions, you can save a failed combo with assist.

Jecht Stream – Neutral 2 – Down 3 – HP (Triumphant Grasp)

Combo Approximate damage (multipliers) Approximate EX Force
Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Down 3 40 + WR (4, 7, 10, 19 + WR) 27 (9, 9, 9)
Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Down 3 > Triumphant Grasp 31 + HP WR (4, 7, 10, 10 + HP WR) 57 (9, 9, 9, 30)
Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Down 3 > Triumphant Grasp LV2 36 + HP WR (4, 7, 10, 15 + HP WR) 57 (9, 9, 9, 30)
Jecht Stream > Neutral 2 > Down 3 > Jecht Blade 31 (4, 7, 10, 10 + HP WR) 57 (9, 9, 9, 30)

Bread and butter, the easy version. Travels less distance than the neutral 3 branch off of Stream, but wall rush is more consistent with round walls in Order’s Sanctuary.

Something to note, the Down 3 combo chain has strong knockback. It can wall rush from nearly the top of Order's Sanctuary, so even if you miss the HP attack, you can still convert with assist. Try to anticipate it, the wall rush won't do any damage at max distance.

Hitting the opponent on the ground (or Feral Chaos in the air) allows Jecht to cancel Down 3 into Jecht Blade instead. Statistically it does not differ from Triumphant Grasp LV1 combo in any way, but this is yet another way to influence combo trajectory and thus, wall rush accuracy.

Combos (Assist)

AC = Assist Chase DC = Dodge Cancel WR = Wall Rush

The listed combos will default to max damage HPs. Since the damage scales according to character stats and equipment, the native damage multipliers for attacks will be used to indicate damage.

Remember that you are allowed to adjust your combo to suit your needs e.g. Jecht Beam instead of Jecht Blade. If you go for uncharged HPs you don't lose much brv damage, so if they're difficult to pull off, it is okay to not worry about them.

Any Jecht Stream > Jecht Blade / Jecht Beam combo can also be done from Jecht Rush.

Combo Approximate damage (multipliers) Notes Video
Jecht Rush > Ultimate Jecht Shot WR > Kuja > DC > Jecht Beam > AC > Jecht Stream ?? Beam increases critical hit rate for Jecht Stream. video here
Jecht Rush > Jecht Blade WR > Kuja > DC (diagonal / forward) > Jecht Beam > DC > AC > Jecht Stream LV3 > Jecht Blade LV2 ?? Beam increases critical hit rate for Jecht Stream. another vid
Jecht Stream > Down 3 > Kuja > AC > Jecht Stream LV3 > Jecht Blade LV2 ?? BRV damage. Can fit in Jecht Beam during assist if nearby. video
Jecht Stream > Triumphant Grasp WR > Kuja > AC > Jecht Stream LV3 > HP ?? Kuja is too far above Jecht to fit in a Jecht Beam. videooo
Jecht Stream > Down 3 > Jecht Beam > Kuja > Jecht Beam HIT > DC > AC > Jecht Stream LV3 > Jecht Blade LV2 ?? No wall. Delay the assist call until the opponent is not moving as much. video
Jecht Stream > Neutral 3 > Jecht Beam > Kuja > AC > Jecht Stream LV3 > Jecht Blade LV2 ?? Requires wall. Good for EX generation. video
Jecht Stream Failed 3 > Kuja (after multi-hit spinning) > last kick HIT > Kuja HIT > AC > Jecht Stream LV3 > Jecht Blade LV2 ?? Combo save. No wall. video
Jecht Stream Failed 3 > Kuja > Empty chase > assist HIT > AC > Jecht Stream LV3 > Jecht Blade LV2 ?? Combo save. Requires wall. video
Jecht Stream Failed 3 > Kuja HP > Chase HP > assist HIT > AC > Jecht Stream > Jecht Blade LV2 ?? Combo save. Requires 2 assist bars. video

Saving a combo

Even failed combos can be converted into HP damage with assist. The timing varies depending on your assist and stage positioning.

If the opponent is pushed into a wall, most meta assists will work fine if you initiate empty chase. Without a wall, Aerith works consistently with empty chase. As a general rule, call the assist after the last kick, but BEFORE the chase prompt appears. Then do empty chase to coincide with the assist's connected attack.

Refer to the assist combo tables for details.

Knockback cancel

Few assists (Kuja, Tidus, Sephiroth) require cancelling the knockback of the last hit that causes a chase prompt. The idea is to call the assist when the multi hits end, or when Jecht does a little spin before winding up the kick.

If done correctly, assist will carry out their attack as usual. Unfortunately, some assists like Yuna, Onion Knight and Zidane spawn too far for this to work with them. However, assists with good range, wide hitbox and / or multiple hits such as Kuja and Sephiroth make this easier.

Refer to the assist combo tables for details.